# John 17.5

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**Book:** [John](/codex/john-the-apostle/) · NASB95

## Verse

> <span class="rl-speech">Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.</span> (John 17:5, NASB95)

## Immediate context (±2 verses)

**NASB95** ([NASB95](/codex/nasb95/))
> 3. <span class="rl-speech">This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.</span> 4. <span class="rl-speech">I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do.</span>
> 
> **5. <span class="rl-speech">Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.</span>**
> 
> 6. <span class="rl-speech">I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.</span> 7. <span class="rl-speech">Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You;</span> (John 17:3-7, NASB95)

## Setting

- **Speaker:** Jesus, in prayer to the Father.
- **Audience:** the Father (direct address), with the eleven disciples within earshot, this is the **High Priestly Prayer** (John 17), spoken aloud after the Last Supper discourse and before crossing the Kidron to Gethsemane.
- **Location:** likely still in the upper room or en route to Gethsemane (cf. John 14:31 "get up, let us go from here," followed by chapters 15-17).
- **Time period:** Passover eve, c. AD 30 (or AD 33), the night before the crucifixion.

## Theological reading

The verse is the **strongest single self-attestation of Christ's pre-incarnate glory** in the Gospels. Three load-bearing claims:

1. **"The glory which I had"**, past possession. The aorist tense ("which I *had*") with the imperfect *eichon* describes ongoing pre-existent state. Christ does not request *new* glory but the *return* of glory previously possessed.
2. **"With You" (*para soi*)**, relational presence. The same preposition family (*para*, *pros*) underlies John's prologue language of relational being-with-God. Cf. [John 1.1](/codex/john-1-1/) *pros ton theon*, see [G4314 - pros](/codex/g4314-pros/).
3. **"Before the world was" (*pro tou ton kosmon einai*)**, temporal anteriority to creation itself. Christ's pre-existence is not merely antedating His incarnation but antedating the entire created order.

Combining the three: Christ existed in glorious relational presence with the Father *before creation*. This is identical with the Christology of John 1:1.

Two heresies are eliminated:

- **Adoptionism**, Christ became divine at baptism. Refuted: Christ asks for *return* of pre-creational glory.
- **Arianism**, Christ is the highest creature, made before time. Refuted: Christ has glory equal to the Father, *not* derivative of the Father's. Note "glorify Me *together with Yourself*" (*para seautō*), joint glory, not Christ glorifying-as-second-tier.

**Patristic.** Athanasius (*Discourses Against the Arians* III.27, c. AD 358) treats John 17:5 as one of his strongest single proof-texts against Arius: a creature cannot have glory "before the world existed" because creatures came into being *with* the world. Augustine (*Tractates on John* 105, c. AD 414-417) develops the verse's Trinitarian structure: the Son's glory shared *with* the Father is the eternal mutual love and indwelling that constitutes the divine being. Cyril of Alexandria (*Commentary on John*, Book 11, c. AD 425) wields the verse against Nestorius: the same person who is asking is the eternal Son, incarnate without ceasing to be the One who eternally possesses divine glory.

**Reformed / modern.** Calvin (*John* commentary) reads the verse as a decisive proof-text against all subordinationist Christologies, the glory Christ requests is not bestowed but *restored*, requiring prior possession. Modern conservative scholarship (D. A. Carson, *The Gospel According to John* PNTC; Andreas Köstenberger, *John* BECNT) treats the verse alongside John 1:1, 14, 18 as the four-corner-stones of Johannine high Christology.

## Connection to John's prologue

John deliberately frames his Gospel with this glory-language:
- **[John 1.1](/codex/john-1-1/)**, *en archē* (in the beginning), eternal pre-existence
- **[John 1.14](/codex/john-1-14/)**, *eskēnōsen* + *etheasametha tēn doxan autou*, the glory tabernacled and beheld
- **John 17:5**, "the glory which I had… before the world was", the prologue's claim now in Christ's own voice
- **John 17:24**, "they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world"

## Key words

- [G1391 - doxa](/codex/g1391-doxa/), *doxa* (glory), the Shekinah glory predicated of the pre-incarnate Christ
- [G3962 - pater](/codex/g3962-pater/), *patēr* (Father), relational distinction
- [G2316 - theos](/codex/g2316-theos/), *theos* (God), the Father's identity as the audience
- [G2889 - kosmos](/codex/g2889-kosmos/), *kosmos* (world), created order; "before the world existed"
- [G3056 - logos](/codex/g3056-logos/), same eternal Subject as in John 1:1

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## Quoted in

**Arguments and defeaters:**

- [Anointing Implies Subordination Objection Defeater](/codex/anointing-implies-subordination-objection-defeater/)
- [Christian God is the Only True God](/codex/christian-god-is-the-only-true-god/)
- [Cumulative Case for the Deity of Christ](/codex/cumulative-case-for-the-deity-of-christ/)
- [Cursed Messiah Objection Defeater](/codex/cursed-messiah-objection-defeater/), via [John 17.1-5](/codex/john-17-1-5/)
- [Free Will Argument from Love](/codex/free-will-argument-from-love/)
- [Jesus Has a God Therefore Not God Objection Defeater](/codex/jesus-has-a-god-therefore-not-god-objection-defeater/)
- [Muhammad as Paraclete Refutation](/codex/muhammad-as-paraclete-refutation/), via [John 17.4-5](/codex/john-17-4-5/)
- [Trinity Coherence Defense (Latin-Thomist)](/codex/trinity-coherence-defense-latin-thomist/)
- [Unitarian Oneness Binitarian Objection Defeater](/codex/unitarian-oneness-binitarian-objection-defeater/)

**Concepts:**

- [Christ is God](/codex/christ-is-god/)
- [Christ Was Made (Misread Proof-Texts)](/codex/christ-was-made-misread-proof-texts/)
- [Christian Muslim Defender](/codex/christian-muslim-defender/)
- [Christianity](/codex/christianity/)
- [Christs Deity](/codex/christs-deity/)
- [Father-Son Authority Asymmetry](/codex/father-son-authority-asymmetry/)
- [Jesus Said](/codex/jesus-said/), via [John 17](/codex/john-17/)
- [Lesson 2.4, Christology in One Lesson](/codex/lesson-2-4-christology-in-one-lesson/)
- [Old Testament Witness to the Deity of Christ](/codex/old-testament-witness-to-the-deity-of-christ/)
- [Oneness Pentecostalism](/codex/oneness-pentecostalism/)
- [Trinity](/codex/trinity/)
- [Trinity vs Oneness vs Modalism vs Arianism](/codex/trinity-vs-oneness-vs-modalism-vs-arianism/)

**People:**

- [John the Apostle](/codex/john-the-apostle/)

**Lexicon:**

- [G1391 - doxa](/codex/g1391-doxa/)
- [G2889 - kosmos](/codex/g2889-kosmos/)
- [G3962 - pater](/codex/g3962-pater/)

**Passages:**

- [Isaiah 42.8](/codex/isaiah-42-8/)
- [John 1.1-18](/codex/john-1-1-18/)
- [John 14.28](/codex/john-14-28/)
- [John 17.22](/codex/john-17-22/)
- [John 17.3](/codex/john-17-3/)
- [John 8.58](/codex/john-8-58/)
- [Philippians 2.5-11](/codex/philippians-2-5-11/)
- [Philippians 2.5-6](/codex/philippians-2-5-6/)
- [Philippians 2.6-11](/codex/philippians-2-6-11/)
- [Zechariah 12.10](/codex/zechariah-12-10/)

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_Scripture quotations taken from the **New American Standard Bible®** (NASB), Copyright © 1960, 1971, 1977, 1995 by **The Lockman Foundation**. Used by permission. All rights reserved. [www.lockman.org](https://www.lockman.org)_